2014 Wing Josh Cunningham (Bradley Commit)

[Chicagojayfan]

Yeah yeah....I get that it was in the valley. And I get that nobody could ever go from the valley to the big East and have success or even get better. Surely that's never been done.

Fortunately CU is already dominant on the boards and giving up untimely offensive rebounds didn't Ever hurt the Jays this year.

Sarcasm aside...CU just lost a 6'7" forward. A 6'7" forward that was a 4 star recruit and had offers from tons of p5 schools...in other words you can't just turn your nose up at this lowly MVC player. That he ended up there was a fluke.

Not sure about the comparison to Hegner. Hegner has an extra year of development on him. And I wasn't suggesting a trade for hegner. Effectively it would be a trade for LG3. And I'd say that would be a serious upgrade.

1. Nobody said you can't go from the Valley to the BE. Yes, it can be done, but a lot of Cunningham's high level stats were inflated because he played on a BAD team in the MVC. How many teams in the BE could afford to give a frosh like him 32 minutes a game?.. err, pretty much none.

2. How bad was the valley this year? Pretty bad outside of Northern Iowa and WSU. Take his performances against them and add in SLU and KState (really the only decent teams that awful Bradley team faced this year.. probably could have tossed Memphis in, but his stats weren't very good there either), and this is what he did. 30 minutes, 8 pts, 5.7 rebounds (hmm looks a bit different against decent competition), 35% overall shooting, 25% 3 pt range.. His per 40 versus the only decent competition on his schedule -- 11 ppg, 7.6 rebounds .. so much for your comment on rebounding.

3. Comparisons to Hegner are very valid. Given that he is playing for the next 3 years for us along with Huff who is playing the next 2 years for us. A trade for LGIII doesn't mean much as LGIII didn't play any minutes last year and the addition of Huff makes those minutes hard to come by... Note that at least Huff has 3 skills. Cunningham doesn't. It's 4 or nothing in our offense for him, and Hegner, Huff and probably Martin K are sucking up minutes there..

4. This has nothing to do with turning up my nose at a valley player. Earlier in this thread I said:

his offer list out of HS was truly legit -- Indiana, Minnesota, St. Johns, Missouri, Oklahoma, Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri, etc. He was a high major player who went to the valley due to his family ties to Bradley.

but I also said

We liked Cunningham and he's a good player, but there's no reason for us to get into recruiting him to transfer now. Now that we have Huff, Hegner, Harrell, Gilmore, and Martin K on the roster we really don't need another 4/3 type.

There's a reason all of our work lately has been with recruiting guards and not one forward or big.

We have bigger needs than him and already have players who can do what he does and who suit our offense better than him. I wanted him back when we first recruited him, but times have changed and we have different faces on our roster.

[hilltopalum]

Yeah yeah....I get that it was in the valley. And I get that nobody could ever go from the valley to the big East and have success or even get better. Surely that's never been done.

Fortunately CU is already dominant on the boards and giving up untimely offensive rebounds didn't Ever hurt the Jays this year.

Sarcasm aside...CU just lost a 6'7" forward. A 6'7" forward that was a 4 star recruit and had offers from tons of p5 schools...in other words you can't just turn your nose up at this lowly MVC player. That he ended up there was a fluke.

Not sure about the comparison to Hegner. Hegner has an extra year of development on him. And I wasn't suggesting a trade for hegner. Effectively it would be a trade for LG3. And I'd say that would be a serious upgrade.

put yourself in the staff's shoes

Would you take Cunningham who'd likely play the 4 at Creighton, sit out a year, be in the same class as Martin, sit behind Huff and Hegner for 1 & 2 years respectively, or go after a position of greater need?

If Creighton does not end up on Cunningham's list than that speaks volumes of were the staff thinks Hegner and Martin are, moreso than were the evaluate Cunningham or MVC talent.

[R Jay]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that Martin and Justin will be the biggest freshmen contributors.
For Justin, the reasons are obvious. An athletic big man of the likes Creighton has never seen. While he has a lot of technical things to improve, his athleticism sets him apart. While I don't see him starting or playing 30 minutes, I think 10 mpg, 4-6 pts, and 2 rebounds is reasonable with the caveat that he improves a couple technical areas of his game and puts on a bit of weight/muscle.
For Martin, the reasons aren't so obvious. First, though I've only seen a bit of his game (thanks to Bluejay Banter), he can score in a lot of ways. From 3, cutting to the rim, pulling up, etc. Second, he is also very athletic. For a 6'8 guy he moves really well and has serious hops. Third, he's older. He's not your typical freshmen in that he's played high level ball in Europe against better competition than high schoolers. He even had a contract offer before he came here. I expect 12-16 mpg, 6-8 pts, and 3 rebounds out of Martin next year.
As for the guards we're bringing in, I think both are high level players, but with Mo, James, and Isaiah back, I think they'll have a difficult time getting on the floor, particularly if we add another guard who would be eligible next year.
Bottomline, I don't expect us to go after Josh because of the depth we have at the 3-5 spots.

[section202jay]

For Martin, the reasons aren't so obvious. First, though I've only seen a bit of his game (thanks to Bluejay Banter), he can score in a lot of ways. From 3, cutting to the rim, pulling up, etc. Second, he is also very athletic. For a 6'8 guy he moves really well and has serious hops. Third, he's older. He's not your typical freshmen in that he's played high level ball in Europe against better competition than high schoolers. .

They said the same thing about Tai Webster. I will withhold judgement on Krampelj until I see him play in person against NCAA competition.

[ZMagic30]

Martin is like 2 years older than Webster was, and don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure New Zealand isn't really a basketball powerhouse. Plus, none of Miles's players have shown any sort of improvement. Our coaching staff turned a guy who could barely get garbage minutes into a starter and one of our most reliable players this year. Don't pass off Martin just because you want Josh Cunningham for some reason.

[section221jay]

More or less playing devil's advocate here. It's not like the staff cares what I think.

Next year CU will have 2 centers, 5 forwards and 5 guards on the roster...pending the addition of 1 more player to fill out the roster.

So what are the assumptions about guys redshirting?

At forward Harrell, Huff, Hegner and Hansen are all going to play (just realized the letter H plays a prominent role at the position). That's assuming they are all coming back. So do we assume martin will play or is he a candidate to RS? But man...Hegner is the only one who has actually played and showed anything against Big East competition. Huff, I believe, will show just fine. We honestly don't know about Harrell. Hansen...I know nobody likes to speak less than glowingly of current players but I'm not sure he's BE material. I think it's more than just a hunch that Cunningham can play the forward spot at the P5 level.

At guard Watson is the presumed starter with Stewart not redshirting behind him...there's really no chance of him RS right? Zierden is a huge question mark. Milliken is obviously someone that will be counted on big time. What about Thomas RSing?

I don't know. I feel pretty good about a starting 5 next year but beyond that I think there are serious question marks at all positions. So, immediate help...at guard OR forward...would be great and I understand Cunningham doesn't provide that. So if we're CU only takes one guy then one that can play asap is best. But if they are interested in 2 guys, replacing LG wouldn't be a bad idea IMO.

I'll feel better when you guys post comments about how Martin is looking awesome in summer league.

[section221jay]

And yes I realize Hansen may be a center to most..which I think strengthens the argument for serious need at forward both short and long term

[Ethanfor3]

More or less playing devil's advocate here. It's not like the staff cares what I think.

Next year CU will have 2 centers, 5 forwards and 5 guards on the roster...pending the addition of 1 more player to fill out the roster.

So what are the assumptions about guys redshirting?

At forward Harrell, Huff, Hegner and Hansen are all going to play (just realized the letter H plays a prominent role at the position). That's assuming they are all coming back. So do we assume martin will play or is he a candidate to RS? But man...Hegner is the only one who has actually played and showed anything against Big East competition. Huff, I believe, will show just fine. We honestly don't know about Harrell. Hansen...I know nobody likes to speak less than glowingly of current players but I'm not sure he's BE material. I think it's more than just a hunch that Cunningham can play the forward spot at the P5 level.

At guard Watson is the presumed starter with Stewart not redshirting behind him...there's really no chance of him RS right? Zierden is a huge question mark. Milliken is obviously someone that will be counted on big time. What about Thomas RSing?

I don't know. I feel pretty good about a starting 5 next year but beyond that I think there are serious question marks at all positions. So, immediate help...at guard OR forward...would be great and I understand Cunningham doesn't provide that. So if we're CU only takes one guy then one that can play asap is best. But if they are interested in 2 guys, replacing LG wouldn't be a bad idea IMO.

I'll feel better when you guys post comments about how Martin is looking awesome in summer league.

Generally how I see next year (which I feel good about improving on this years' mark...land a top level "big shooting guard (in the mold of Mulder, Lee or Foster)" and I'll feel really good):

1: Watson, Zierden or Stewart (no red-shirt)
2: Milliken, Zierden or Thomas or Harrell
3: Harrell or Thomas or Huff (this is the one spot I think we're really recruiting for as I don't believe Huff is the mold of what Coach wants in a 3, but could play it if needed)
4: Huff or Hegner, Krampelj, Hanson
5: Groselle, Hegner or Patton, Hanson

There's a lot of versatility in this lineup with guys being able to slide up or down a spot based upon match-ups and chemistry.

A couple of comments on specific guys:
Zierden - much depends on the recovery from his surgery and whether he'll be able to be the same guy. I hope so, he lends some savvy to the lineup (a/k/a like Grant Gibbs) that is important for flow and chemistry and allows us to bring Stewart along slowly.

Harrell - I really see him as more of a 3 than a 2 due to the speed and quickness in BE back-courts. My guess is that Milliken blows by him with great regularity in practice. If he can lock down the 3 though, we'll have something we haven't had in a while which is true size at the 3. He's probably the least certain based upon the limited info I've gotten from practice and if you look at "what type" of player we're recruiting Coach appears to be mitigating his risk.

Huff - we might see him play some 3, but I think it's more likely he plays the 4 almost exclusively as he would fit the mold of an athletic, stretch 4 that Mac covets in his offense.

Hegner - how Huff emerges will tell us what we'll see with Hegner. If you watched his playing time this year, there were very few teams where Mac trusted him to play against an athletic 4. I found it a bit confusing, since while he didn't always look pretty doing it, I thought he more than held his own and all of a sudden he was out for the rest of the game. It wouldn't surprise me to see him play some 5 spot while Patton gets his feet wet and Hanson rides the pine.

Krampelj - Based upon looking at the brief highlights, I think he can be a good player for us, but I would see him as more of a stretch 4 than a big 3. I think he's a redshirt possibility only because of the potential logjam at the 4.

So, I know this is a thread about Cunningham and from my perspective, while I think he's a good player he would just add to the logjam at the 4 spot. Our real need is a big guard / small forward that is athletic and has the ability to stroke the three as well as put it on the floor. We might have that in Thomas or Harrell, but the fact that neither is a proven commodity "YET" that Mac is rightfully covering his bases.


Go Blue

[Chicagojayfan]

And yes I realize Hansen may be a center to most..which I think strengthens the argument for serious need at forward both short and long term

In our system, people who can play the forward spots:

3: Huff, Harrell, Martin K, Milliken, TBD (e.g., Mulder)/Khyri
4: Hegner, Huff, Martin K, Harrell if we are going small
and at the 5
5: Groselle, Hanson, Hegner, Patton

Compare that to our guard depth:
1. Watson, Zierden/Stewart
2. Milliken, Zierden, Stewart/Khyri

You can immediately see why we are looking for JUCO guards. We go small pretty regularly and will probably see Milliken at the 3 some this year, Zierden is coming off of injury and isn't our top guy as the backup point, and then we have two true freshman.

At least at forward, we have 3 guys who have been here a year and who the coaches know a lot about, in addition to the ability to slide Milliken down to the 3.

I like Cunningham as a player, but we really have no need for him on this roster. He can't play the 3 for us as his skills are all 4. So that means he needs to fight for minutes with Hegner and Huff. So we want him to transfer to provide depth for maybe 10 minutes a game behind two other guys (both who will be here in '16/'17 and then slug it out with Martin K (who, btw, actually has an outside shot that we LOVE to use at the 4 -- Josh last year from 3 was 23.4%, and with that shooting from the 4, he isn't about to beat out Hegner or Huff.

[section221jay]

Milliken at the "3"...I simply don't think you can make a living in the big East with 5'10, 6'2" and 6'3" on the court too much.