Kalk/Trey - CU history?

[vivid_dude]

Maybe this will be an interesting conversation for some and not for others. With a few days off before the Big East Tourney, here it goes.

Where are Ryan Kalkbrenner and Trey Alexander ranked as all-time greats in Creighton basketball history? I can really only speak for the last 40 years, so anyone before that time won't make my list - but by all means if you're an old-timer (that's not an insult, as my entire goal in life is to become one of those some day) and can add some pre-1984 legends, let's honor them.

Before sharing my list, I acknowledge that Kalk's and Trey's stories aren't finished. A March/April run could allow them to jump the rankings.

1. Doug McDermott
2. Kyle Korver
3. Ryan Kalkbrenner - yep, he's this high on my list. Consistent team accomplishments, plus individual accolades.
4. Rodney Buford
5. Bob Harstad
6. Trey Alexander
7. Marcus Zegarowski - I had Marcus over Trey first, but switched. Positions 6 through 10, plus some honorable mentions, were very difficult for me. The Top 2 weren't, and then you can interchange 3, 4 and 5 without much argument from me.
8. Ryan Sears
9. Ty-Shon Alexander
10. Anthony Tolliver

Please forgive me, older legends: Paul Silas, Rob Portman, Benoit Benjamin, Bob Gibson, etc.

And please also forgive me honorable mentions: Marcus Foster, Khryi Thomas, Chad Gallagher, Duan Cole, Mitch Ballock, Baylor Scheierman and Mo Watson (not enough time), Josh Dotzler, Nate Funk, Booker Woodfox, Antoine Young, Ethan Wragge, Kobe Paras (here for his social media boost).

[DC_JAY]

I think Marcus Foster belongs in the list somewhere. Back-to-back First Team All Big East. His major blemish was not tasting Tourney success, but he was a great player.

[TrueBlueJay]

Baylor is the best player we’ve had since Doug.

[Realhoops]

Baylor is the best player we’ve had since Doug.

Where Baylor fits in the all-timers list at Creighton is a really fascinating discussion to me.

I tend to agree that he's the best all around, most complete player we've had since Doug. The stats for this year and the accolades -- including being the first person in NCAA history to accomplish some of the goals -- speak to that. Unanimous first team all conference. Potentially POY (hopefully). All of that speaks to deserving to be really high.

But he only did it here for two years. From a historical perspective, that's a bit of a negative impact to some degree compared to guys who used to come and be here for four years. But, also, now that we live in the age of transfers and early departures to pro ball, etc., it's increasingly likely that our greatest players from now on are more likely to be two or three year guys anyway, and in that view Baylor is going to be really hard to eclipse. So where do you slot him compared to some of those older legends who didn't have the same opportunities to transfer or leave early, etc.?

Limiting only to my tiime, because it's not appropriate or fair for me to judge or weigh the greats that preceded me --

Doug and Korver
Kalk
Buford
Harstad

Then guys like Trey, Khyri, Foster, Zegarowski, Tyshon..

Honorable mention to guys like Funk, Sears and Walker, Cole, and Wragge / Ballock.

Mo would have made the list for sure but for the injury that really derailed an already shortened sting at Creighton. Booker was a big impact guy in a super short time stint. Dotzler would have likely climbed the list but for the injury (damn SIU). Young was really important in bridging the gap from Altman to McDermott. Gallagher was important because without him they couldn't have made all of the "Dynamic Duo" posters and billboards with Harstad. I'd also asterisk and shout out some of the guys like Hegner and Groselle and Echenique who helped to bridge the gap from a physicality and competitiveness standpoint between the MVC and competing with the national powers and then joining the Big East. (Gregory didn't get to play on a Big East Jays team -- but he was one of our first guys who was physically ready to compete in the NCAA tourney against those teams like UNC -- Toby and Geoffrey helped the transition with effort and desire where we needed some toughness to get a foothold).

[bluejayfan00]

In the last handful of years, it's become increasingly difficult to make the list in an order you feel good about. I think there's a few guys who stand above the rest, but after the initial few, you could name so many guys based on individual success, team success, individual talent, etc. It's sort of like comparing current athletes to guys from 40-50 years ago in pro sports. Guys now, in every sport, are so much more talented, skilled, and athletic as a whole. Guys who were unreal for us in the Valley at some point wouldn't have been the same level of player for us now in the Big East, but their resumes should still be respected for what they did, when they did it.

I think for now, taking everything into account, it's:

1. Doug
GAP
Next group: Korver, Buford, Silas, Kalk

then it gets complicated. Harstad, Gallagher, Gibson, Sears, Walker, Funk, Tolliver, Mo, Foster, Khyri, MZ, Ty-Shon, Trey, Baylor

[jaysfan3]

Baylor is getting 2nd and 3rd team All-American honors. Who else can say that?

[Savannah Jay]

Baylor is getting 2nd and 3rd team All-American honors. Who else can say that?

That's a fair argument...in defense of Kalk not getting that same recognition, he is playing at the same time as Edey, Bacot, and Dickinson and it's hard to "out popular" guys from Purdue, UNC, and Kansas.

THe All American teams i've seen have guards, forwards, wings and a center. Only one center. Baylor could and does fit into more than one category. But there is only one center on the all american teams i've seen...and they've had Edey first team and Dickinson second team.

[Wizard of Westroads]

Oldtimer comments:
1. Bob Portman (I think) finished second in the nation in scoring AND rebounding one season and averaged 24 mpg over his career. I can still see his fallaway jumper from 15 feet (picture Trey, but a little deeper) Would have been even more deadly with a 3 point line.
2. Haven't seen anyone mention Benoit. Lack of team success hurts his cause, but deserves to be in the top 10.
3. Bob Harstad remains my favorite Jay. Nobody put out for Creighton like he did.
4. I echo the love forJosh Dotzler. He might have been a top 10 all timer if Bryan Mulllins hadn't run up on his heel.
5. Didn't see Silas play, but he's clearly No. 2 behind Doug.

[LJay]

If Mo doesn’t get injured he may have been an AA. Was leading the nation in assists by a LOT. Was still leading the nation many games after he went down. I’m not looking it up but I would surmise he ended up near Top 5 or 10.

Of course, other things happened too.

[SeattleJay]

Please give a little love and respect to my buddy, Rick Apke. Rick’s senior year, he beat Larry Bird three times (Larry was a junior). Larry said nobody is going to beat me three times in one year.

I don’t remember all of Rick’s honors but I believe he was voted the best player of the decade for the 1970’s at Creighton.