recruiting results discussion thread

[Bluejay Bilas]

In short, for those of you who get tired of my long posts:
I love CU hoops. I think we’ve got a solid program and staff. They’ve made some nice progress in moving from the MVC to the Big East. There are reasons for optimism about this recruiting class (the 2 guys we have and what it will eventually look like in its entirety) and our actual on-court short-term future. There are also reasons to be a little pessimistic about where we stand with respect to our conference-mates, especially after being the one consistent MVC “power” for 15 years. This board will get ugly at times if we start losing as much as or more than we win.

The long version:
The fact this happened to us twice with McQuaid, and that several other SG targets and interests are now no longer in the picture, is what really stings. It’s up there with the Baylor blowout as one of the biggest gut punches of the Coach Mac era.

I totally get the difficulty of us competing with Michigan State for a recruit, but the reality of trying to truly succeed at this level is that the staff, who I think all of us like a lot, will have to (a) prove way better than most at jumping early on underevaluated talent (and properly evaluating those kids, so they end up justifying their significant rankings jumps), (b) seriously excel at transfers or top Jucos, like Hoiberg with transfers or Buzz Williams with Jucos, and/or (c) semi-frequently win battles for top 100 talent. In terms of guys who were viewed as top 150 guys at the time they visited CU, we’ve landed Gilmore, and lost out on LaChance, Macura, Cunningham, and McQuaid (throw in Glynn Watson and other guys who were close or likely close to making a visit, and it’s not a good showing at all). It's easy to say good job, good effort, since we have been finalists for some nice prospects, but other coaches have convinced each one of those guys to commit elsewhere.

I seriously doubt that we can contend for Big East titles by annually beating others to the discovery of new veins of gold (e.g., Harrell and Patton). I don’t think the staff wants to heavily really on Jucos, nor does that route work for most programs. Maybe the transfer option is a good one for us, as guys with a year or two of college tend not to be as enamored with the name on the front of the jersey and concerned about what Creighton isn’t, but seem to be more interested in player development and the many advantages our program offers its players. But, even if we become a good landing spot for a few transfers, we’re going to need for the staff to sometimes close the deal with top, long-term targets (it’s kind of funny and sad that with all of the talk we’ve had on this board about a dozen or so of our early 2015 targets, one of our commits was not discussed at all on this board until a post stating that he’d committed to CU, and the other commit was only first mentioned one week before he committed). Besides Gilmore, that has not yet happened. And since McQuaid was pursued by our staff for well over a year, and appeared to be a great fit for the whole “Shooter U” / “#letitfly” thing, it is upsetting to see him choose a place with a bit of a logjam at his position. At some point it is more than fair to question the results of coaches who are very nicely compensated to lead our program forward. Those same guys have also earned, at least for awhile, the benefit of the doubt and ample time to see if they have what it takes to run a successful high-major program.

Still think Clarke’s a really uphill battle, but I agree that as things stand he’s the one remaining hope for the 2015 class ending up as a top 3 or 4 Big East class on paper. Obviously, just as I hoped about McQuaid, after he finished his official visit weekend without committing to CU, I hope I am wrong to be a little skeptical about us winning the Clarke battle. If he commits to CU, we'll all quickly forget the McQuaid loss.

Without Clarke, it will probably have all the makings of a middle-of-the-pack high-major class, which isn’t the end of the world or a huge surprise for a program transitioning to high-major life.

At the same time, we’re not always going to have a brand new practice facility and the momentum of three straight NCAA appearances and a recently lottery drafted star player. Unless we pull a 2013-2014 Nebrasketball and sneak up on everyone this season, I frankly think that next year will be a tougher sell than this year.

Are we ready for Khyri Thomas at this point, cause McQuaid’s decision makes that seem a lot more likely to me?

[jfan]

I share your angst, especially on a day that we are all very disappointed. I don't think that we have a great shot at Chris C. either. However, I think we have to remember that recruiting for 2015 doesn't end until next spring and our class won't be finalized until then. A long way to go! What is concerning is that we seem to have fewer and fewer prospects on the horizon. Bluejay Bilas, I agree that we need to connect on more top 150 prospects or we run the risk of getting left behind by the other BE powers. By the way your posts aren't too long. Sign of a true fan which every program needs!

[LynchMob]

If you're a recruit, you look at Creighton like we look at so many other flashes in the pan that were built around one player. Time will tell whether we are a flash in the pan or not, but to blame the staff or the recruits for going elsewhere when blue bloods come calling is ridiculous.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to see people expect us to land every recruit we go after. If you want to be a big-time program, act like it. Don't act like the coaches, who, by the way, have just led Creighton to its most successful season in the modern era, need to be called to question because some young and dumb players put on a hat.

[Bluejay Bilas]

If you're a recruit, you look at Creighton like we look at so many other flashes in the pan that were built around one player. Time will tell whether we are a flash in the pan or not, but to blame the staff or the recruits for going elsewhere when blue bloods come calling is ridiculous.

Frankly, it's embarrassing to see people expect us to land every recruit we go after. If you want to be a big-time program, act like it. Don't act like the coaches, who, by the way, have just led Creighton to its most successful season in the modern era, need to be called to question because some young and dumb players put on a hat.

Not sure we're all on the same page here, although I don't totally disagree with your flash in the pan comment. Personally, I see both the positives and negatives of our conference move and our recruiting results. Not blaming staff, just saying that it's fair to question them at times. Unless you consider someone like Donovan Mitchell, who the staff never got close to landing, I think McQuaid's the first Mac recruit we've lost to a blue blood program. The other guys I listed were lost to Vandy, Xavier, Bradley, and Nebraska. Those staffs succeeded where ours did not. That's how it is in recruiting. On a positive note, it is worth mentioning that we ultimately may have ended up with a better 2014 group of Freshmen and transfers because of the choices of the 3 aforementioned 2014 kids. Time will tell.

I'm absoutely not blaming McQuaid or any other high school kids for their decisions. He made a good choice. Choosing CU would also have been a good choice. But, even if a kid makes a bad recruiting choice, I'm hardly blaming a 17 or 18 year old for making such a decision.

Maybe someone on here expects us to land every recruit we chase. Not me. That said, we've landed approximately zero of the 2015 recruits who (a) we've offered, (b) had a chance to think about that offer for more than a couple of days, and (c) had another high-major offer.

As to a big-time program mentality, the MSU people would have been shocked and moderately angry if someone chose CU over them (i.e., they certainly expected to land McQuaid).

The positives about Harrell, Gilmore, Huff, Watson, Kreklow, Patton and Stewart have been discussed at length on this board. There has been ample cheerleading, and I am very excited to see each one of them take the court for CU. I don't think anyone's forgetting those guys or our returning lettermen. I'm just not into the rah, rah stuff on the morning when the staff lost its #1 target. That doesn't mean I've jumped off the bandwagon or something.

[wbjay]

I appreciate where you are coming from.

There are 351 Division 1 basketball programs in the United States. Theoretically, we are competing against every one of them. The odds are stacked against us, as they are against every other coach out there trying to put together a team. Realistically, I believe our odds are better than most programs, just due to the fact we are in the Big East. Of course, our other intangibles also help, i.e. our facilities, our academic rankings, etc. I think we will continue to attract top players, more so than when we were in the valley. But that territory comes with it the potential to lose a lot more top prospects than we will gain.

Who knows why prospects choose other schools. We are talking about 17-18 year old kids. Perhaps they pick a school because the coed who gave them a campus tour looked cute. Maybe they perceive the academic course load may be easier at one school over another. Or perhaps they pick a school because they want to make their parents happy. I have a hard enough time figuring out what is in my 17 year old son's head much less someone I don't even know.

Just to make this long post just a little bit longer, I was very disappointed to hear McQuaid decided to go to MSU, but ultimately he had to decide where he thought his best interests lie. Whether we agree with it or not.

[gtmoBlue]

Creighton has been highly successful over the last 70 years by developing players. Of course, as a midmajor, that trend was primarily by necessity, as few Top 100/150 guys landed here. The various coaching regimes (sans RJ) were adept at evaluating and developing kids to a high level of performance. Life as a middie.

Here we are entering year 2 of being in a major conference. Most of our competitors have been here, done that - for years and it is reflected in their recruiting. Creighton has been successful enough, via HS recruits and via transfers, to remain competitive for the next 3 years. This 2015 class will enable Creighton to remain competitive up to 2019/20, barring injuries and getting zilch recruiting wise in 2016-19 (not very likely). All is not doom n gloom. To the members of the Chicken Little club - take a few days off, go golfing, fishing, boating (whatever you do to relax), and enjoy the fine Fall weather.

Losing a few recruiting battles is not new...Stover, Westbrook, Dixon, Eliason, all the Iowa kids, all the KCMO kids, Agau, Fischer, Yancy-Harris, and others...win a few, lose more than a few. We picked up 2 Top 150 HS recruits and 2 top transfers last recruiting season. The Jays cast the largest new ever this recruiting season (50+ offers) and yes, the results thus far are not overwhelming. We missed on several top guys, but have landed one Top 50 recruit and one very promising PG. We are still in the hunt for another Top 100 guy and there are Still many good to very good recruits on the boards. Not bad for a university in it's 2nd season as a major. If we continue to get 2 Top 150 kids per year, along with the development of our other recruits, the Jays can remain competitive in the league.

Land Clarke and this class is a big success. Add in a kid who has an outstanding Sr year this season or a top transfer this Spring and this class is right there with the 1982 recruiting class. Creighton does not need to land Top 10 classes annually. We do need to land Top 50 classes consistently to remain in the competitive mix and the Hilltop is well positioned to do so. We are there already...as this class is top 50, as is - and will be rated higher by the end of the Spring recruiting window. No need for going "Keithrick shopping" yet. The coaches are tireless workaholics...there are good to great recruits still out there waiting to be offered. The Jays will get our guys. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience my friends, Patience.

Great post BB, as always.

[Chicagojayfan]

We've landed top recruits for some time now and will continue to land them. We can't expect to go up against top programs and win all the time, especially when those programs have a connection with the father.

The guys on our roster, even the older guys who were from before the BE are pretty much all guys who had other solid BCS offers (Hanson - Iowa State, Zaga, Mizzou; Hegner - Marquette, Groselle - Colorado, etc., etc.,), so it's not like we have a roster devoid of talent.. quite the contrary. In addition the recent classes have moved up the recruiting levels along with our national prestige. Moving to the BE takes that to a new level, but from a recruit's standpoint it takes time to build relationships. We've done that, but we need to continue to meet and greet the younger guys ('16 and '17 kids) and we need to keep showing it on the court. A long tourney run will do wonders for our win ratios.

Our recruiting strategy needs to be creative.
- We don't have a ton of local kids. We need to find the ones who do develop quickly and land them (see Patton)
- We have a national name, but not enough of one to pull everyone we want. We need to get in early and recruit hard, but even then we can lose out

On the plus side:

- incredible stadium and fan support
- exciting and fun style of play
- guys in the NBA
- good coaching for developing players
- good university and environment for education
- Big East competition and TV

We are getting there. Compared to where we were when Altman left we are light years ahead.. compared to where we were before Altman got here, we are not even in the same galaxy.

[jayball]

What reason do you have to question the coaches on the recruiting front?

They aren't working hard enough......bullcrap.

They aren't getting ranked players....wrong, but people need to realize that not every good player is gonna be top 50 or top 100. There are 5 players on the court at time and 1 ball.

We can't compete with the Big East....how the f do you know that? We competed pretty damn well with an MVC roster.

Most of the posters on here know jackshit about anything. We read internet articles done mostly by fanboys and watch highlight videos with zero understanding of the level of competition begin faced. I enjoy following recruiting, but you are gonna be on miserable SOB if you are gonna hyperanlayze every bit of it from what you read on the web. I think it's unfair to start calling out staff when the class isn't finished yet.

We are gonna have 50 nos to every yes.

deal with it.

[taa71458]

I guess I missed the board rule where no one is allowed to be critical

[bird_call]

Is it just me or do some of the posters on this message board have an inferiority complex?