2021 Class

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Re: 2021 Class

Postby JacobPadilla » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:09 am

Chicagojayfan wrote:
bluejayfan00 wrote:Our top 3 targets for 2021 were Sallis, Hepburn, and Mors, right? 0/2 thus far.


Sucks to lose both right off the bat, but better to lose out now and not at the end of the recruiting season -- and Are we sure they were our top 3? I think Sallis was very high. Mors they liked a lot and recruited from the beginning, but Hepburn is a guy we offered after everyone else (maybe part of how we lost Mors as well)

Believe Tamar Bates is visiting in October, and not sure just how much mutual interest yet, but Mason Miller feels like the kind of 4 we've wanted for a long time


"Everyone else" is Nebraska, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Wisconsin, Minnesota and Creighton all offered in June. His other offers, which came after Creighton, were Valparaiso and Loyola-Chicago. Creighton's recruitment of and relationship with him went back much farther than Wisconsin's. It just seems like whatever they found up there this weekend matched what they were looking for.
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby Chicagojayfan » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:03 am

JacobPadilla wrote:
Chicagojayfan wrote:
bluejayfan00 wrote:Our top 3 targets for 2021 were Sallis, Hepburn, and Mors, right? 0/2 thus far.


Sucks to lose both right off the bat, but better to lose out now and not at the end of the recruiting season -- and Are we sure they were our top 3? I think Sallis was very high. Mors they liked a lot and recruited from the beginning, but Hepburn is a guy we offered after everyone else (maybe part of how we lost Mors as well)

Believe Tamar Bates is visiting in October, and not sure just how much mutual interest yet, but Mason Miller feels like the kind of 4 we've wanted for a long time


"Everyone else" is Nebraska, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Wisconsin, Minnesota and Creighton all offered in June. His other offers, which came after Creighton, were Valparaiso and Loyola-Chicago. Creighton's recruitment of and relationship with him went back much farther than Wisconsin's. It just seems like whatever they found up there this weekend matched what they were looking for.


Yes, the offers came in June, but Creighton offered AFTER Nebraska, Wisconsin and Minnesota. If a local kid that we presumably know best sees 2 big out of state programs offer ahead of us, that pretty much says that we aren't all that into him.

Now maybe we didn't evaluate him correctly and changed our mind, but I didn't see the kind of frantic recruiting I would have expected to see if that were the case. Not to mention that the schools he seemed closest to (outside of us) are all massive B10 state schools. Was that what he was looking for as a college experience?

Mors is a big loss as I think his style of play and skills could have been very effective in our system - although he has his downsides in projecting him to play on the next level and I think particularly in a league like the B10.

But even there, we need to look at what the kid wanted. In the WI article they quote him this way:

""I felt so comfortable with this," he said. "Even if I had gotten any other offers, I knew this is where I wanted to be, even since I was a little kid. I've been dreaming about it for a long time.

"I couldn't let this opportunity go to waste.""


So to summarize: I think Mors was in our top 3, but we lost out to the kid's dream school. Hepburn is a guy we liked, but I really don't think he was in our coaches' top 3. If so our recruiting of him would have looked a lot different, and, to be blunt, our coaches have evaluated the local kids better than anyone else in the last decade.
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby White&BlueDude » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:30 am

Reminder to follow JoeyTempo (aka hilltopalum) on Twitter. He's got a great rundown of the 2021 developments in a post-Hepburn/Mors world:

https://twitter.com/TempoWBR/status/1178479962652844032?s=20
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby JayPak » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:49 pm

Everyone's takes are rational, but it feels like a gut punch to me to in one evening lose a local PG from the same school that produced Dotzler and Young, and a stretch 4 who we've had a relationship with since before seventh grade. Who else is left locally after Murrell and Hepburn besides Sallis? Murphy Jr. is gone. Jaren Marshall?
Last edited by JayPak on Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I want to beat (NU) so bad. This is a blue state...I’m a Creighton Bluejay. I’ve always wanted to go to Creighton...never really liked Nebraska...Creighton trusted me and Nebraska was just…out there...Can’t wait to play ’em..." ~Justin Patton
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby whtblu » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:21 pm

Marshall is not Big East caliber.
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby Chicagojayfan » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:03 pm

JayPak wrote:Everyone's takes are rational, but it feels like a gut punch to me to in one evening lose a local PG from the same school that produced Dotzler and Young, and a stretch 4 who we've had a relationship with since before seventh grade. Who else is left locally after Murrell and Hepburn besides Sallis? Murphy Jr. is gone. Jaren Marshall?


Murphy is in RI, but is 2022 now, so Sallis is likely the only local kid we want at this point.

Stretch things out a bit to Iowa and Jaylon Moses and Chase Courbat are guys we are watching.

- Moses was a top Iowa recruit before tearing his ACL and a bunch of teams are watching to see how he's doing now.

- Courbat has a Northern Iowa offer and a lot of P5 teams watching him. He's 6-9 can run and can shoot the 3 - very skinny, but moves his feet well and I can see him having a jump like Murrell did this past year.

https://twitter.com/shauncourbat/status ... 4795722757

If we go to Kansas then we see Tamar Bates - combo guard who has can shoot (lefty), and has good athleticism and defensive skills with long arms. He's on the KC Run GMC team that we know so well and visits in a couple of weeks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4lpyhgo9WM

A few 2021 guys who are pretty close and who the coaches are recruiting or watching closely from what I can tell
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby HaRdWoOd » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:10 pm

JayPak wrote:Everyone's takes are rational, but it feels like a gut punch to me to in one evening lose a local PG from the same school that produced Dotzler and Young, and a stretch 4 who we've had a relationship with since before seventh grade. Who else is left locally after Murrell and Hepburn besides Sallis? Murphy Jr. is gone. Jaren Marshall?


Locally? Jasen Green maybe. Still young.
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby Chicagojayfan » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:18 pm

HaRdWoOd wrote:
JayPak wrote:Everyone's takes are rational, but it feels like a gut punch to me to in one evening lose a local PG from the same school that produced Dotzler and Young, and a stretch 4 who we've had a relationship with since before seventh grade. Who else is left locally after Murrell and Hepburn besides Sallis? Murphy Jr. is gone. Jaren Marshall?


Locally? Jasen Green maybe. Still young.


thought he was '22?
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby mredle » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:42 pm

I asked this question over on the other site and I guess I'll paraphrase it slightly to more closely match the comments here. It has been suggested that CU is the premiere college basketball program in the state. It has been suggested that Chucky Hepburn and Matthew Mors are the premiere players their age and it was therefore critical that we sign them. But what if the "premiere" players in the state don't grade out as the "premiere" players on our list of recruits. Do we give them a geographic bump or go after players we believe are better suited to play in the Big East and that better suit our needs? And for the Mac haters out there, if we believe we should go local regardless, doesn't that mean we should Mac a pass when the local players don't produce?
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Re: 2021 Class

Postby bluejayb13 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:35 pm

mredle wrote:I asked this question over on the other site and I guess I'll paraphrase it slightly to more closely match the comments here. It has been suggested that CU is the premiere college basketball program in the state. It has been suggested that Chucky Hepburn and Matthew Mors are the premiere players their age and it was therefore critical that we sign them. But what if the "premiere" players in the state don't grade out as the "premiere" players on our list of recruits. Do we give them a geographic bump or go after players we believe are better suited to play in the Big East and that better suit our needs? And for the Mac haters out there, if we believe we should go local regardless, doesn't that mean we should Mac a pass when the local players don't produce?


Murrell and Hepburn hurt because they are highly regarded recruits at the national level that are in our own backyard. Mors isn't a Nebraska boy but we recruited him hard and really wanted him for this class. There is no need to give them a "geographic bump" as they are the 78th, 104th, and 142nd ranked recruits in their class. We haven't shown we can get any top 50 talent, and our hit rate on recruits in this range hasn't been fantastic which makes it hurt when you lose out on these guys that don't come around that often this close to home. We wanted all of these players because they fit our system and believe they will be good college basketball players, there just wasn't enough to convince them to come here.
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